Spell Point regeneration - ID: 955
FORUM: Gossip - The rusty dagger tavern
This topic was started by icetear on 27/11/2012, 16:07:28
Hello all,
it kinda hurts to see one-star reviews based solely on the fact that some might find it too complicated to refresh their spell points. Although I don't think that it is possible to satisfy every player's needs, I will take the last reviews as a chance to raise this question again:
Do you really want an option "Rest" / "Camp" (I would activate it via touching the map name underneath the viewport) which acts like the other resting places, but with the chance of coming across wandering monsters?
This would totally spoil the fun IMHO - but of course I have my own point of view on the game mechanics ;-)
Thanks and best regards
Mario
There are opportunities to recharge spell points in the game...daylight, fountains, drops of the Harmonic Splinter & Gems, or hitting the taverns & buying a lot of rounds of drinks. This has worked well enough for me so far, and you didn't make it easy a few times there! Dark trapped spell point draining areas indeed!
Also, my bard just learned the Song of Spirit, so he's now an indispensable member of the crew. I'm assuming as with the other songs the more I use it, the better it gets, so the spell points will recharge faster going forward. I used the song to rev up once I got to Paradosa since recharging at the inn there is slow - I can afford it, but 10sp at a time, takes a lot of taps to get my gang powered back up. Maybe an option to buy a keg or two to go up 50 at a time?? Or make the Song of Spirit available earlier in the game? Spell point regenerating rings perhaps?
Thanks for the great work with this game - lots of pleasurable time spent grinding away. The last set of changes helped also, the drops have become better now & finally my warrior's dealing some decent damage!
I was going to post on this topic earlier. I think the one star reviews are totally unwarranted. I like the magic as is. I wouldn't change it.
Magic regeneration is easy. The problem is that some players do not find the fountain at the ruin camp. And some others don't grind enough to find harmonic gems (and splinters), the ring of force or the gloves of Force. Then there are the hoods and rings of destruction and power that hold infinite charges.
I would suggest some minor changes to help the players who have trouble recharging magic.
1) Add a chapter to the Compendium on regenerating magic. In it state where to find the fountain at the ruin camp and explain that it recharges every other morning. Explain there are merchants that recharge magic for gold. Explain that magic regenerates in daylight. Explain about the Song of Spirit. Explain how to use a gem or splinter which restores full magic or some magic respectively. (Yes, this would take some of the fun of the game from the explorers, but many others these days don't want to spend the time discovering things for themselves.)
2) Change the descriptions of the items listed in 1) to say they regenerate magic without sunlight or don't cost magic to use as appropriate.
You could also consider the minor changes:
3) Change the fountain at Savage Crossing to regenerate spell points on the same schedule as the one at the Ruin Camp.
4) Change the fountain at the vampire's castle to regenerate spell points on the same schedule as the one at the Ruin Camp.
5) Give the starting Magician and Conjurer about 8 more base SP at roll up. Now they start at about 8 to 18 SP, make that starting number for level one be a little higher like 16 to 24.
This is a great game as it is which you have worked hard to keep balanced. Please don't destroy it by making it easier to gat spell points recharged for those potential players who don't have the patience to play the game as you created it.
None of these changes are necessary, but I think they might lessen some of the complaints about magic being too difficult.
Best regards,
Craig
By the way, I just thought that we can post reviews for each update, perhaps those of us who enjoy the game, should do so...
Actually, the App store does not let me actually submit The review i just wrote. and i cannot even find my previous one. Bummer.
No, spell point regen via Rest/Camp is not the way to go. It's the easy way for the copout crybaby that wants nothing but the easy way to beat the game. If you know how to leverage the Bard, Daylight areas, Gems, etc. you can do well. Resource management is nothing new these days. Heck, my party can live in the exit maze at Castilla Artonsa indefinitely in spite of how that map sucks HP AND SP at every step. It is completely survivable if marshall your resources carefully and figure out what you need to do. I stayed there for days, just so I can milk the Exp and item bonanza there.
I do however, think there are even more fun and creative ways to balance out the game and make SP recovery more fun. Introduce. Like so:
1. Wand variety. Not just hold a set number of charges, but also other attributes.
Example, when wielded:
- + Add SP
- SP Multiplier (x.25, x2, x3, etc)
- Enchanges damage: (+5d10 damage, etc, so more bang for the SP buck)
- Reduces spell consumption. (Enhances Spell Mastery bonuses, etc.)
2. Introduce Magic User staffs.
- Staffs could contain combinations of what Wands can do. Makes a staff better than a wand perhaps. (+3 Save and +50 SP)
3. Make Magic User armor and garments. Most of the stuff my magic users have so far only accord them AC bonus. Like they ever need it while standing in the back 3 slots. Would love to have a Wizard Cap +50SP though.
4. Bag of holding. To carry...more splinters? Man, be interesting to see how you code this. Objective-C is it? Possible.
The combinations are endless for just the above items alone.
Here's how you can make the Rogue even more awesome. Only Rogues can carry Bags of Holding. How classic is that? Plus, it's also historical that Rogue classes can use magical objects like wands and rings normally reserved for magic users. Bard on Horns, Rogue on Dragonwand, less SP drain on AM! So, now I might just ditch some other class to make room for both the Bard and Rogue. Daaang, paradigm shift!
And of course, vs Undead capability on Paladin. Not just granting him a 'Repel Dead' Nah, too obvious and lacking imagination. Classic Paladin uses heal spells vs. undead. So, 'First Aid, Phlebotomy and Recovery' totally changes the dynamic. Heal AND Damage, totally the Boss! Indirectly relieves the Magic User off the spell drain. Coz that 350 SP on the Paladin that I never, ever use? Definitely use it now :) And there I say at super high level, Paladin gets vs Demons?
Love the game!
-Limmer
By the way, I just thought that we can post reviews for each update, perhaps those of us who enjoy the game, should do so...
Of course you are very welcome to do so ;-)
As for the many good ideas here: great input, thank you very much!
Kind regards
Mario
The game is designed to be a strategical, turn based RPG. Mario has done a fantastic job of this. It is a game of planning. Anyone who complains that it is too hard or too slow to progress because of spell point regeneration would be better suited to stick with car racing games or first person shooters and the immediate gratification that arcade-ish type games offer. Leave the sp system the way it is. It is a beautiful game.
I have found myself out of gems/shards with over a day to go before he fountain resets. I just leave the game on and do something else.
Perhaps a very slow sp regeneration rate at night and underground.
Perhaps a repeatable quest that yields a harmonic shard or gem.
I like the idea about making other fountains also replenish sp but frankly I don't think I would have any mana constraints at all if I had access to three fountains.
I like the notion of making the mana regeneration song available earlier, bards don't really carry their weight until then.
When you have another day until the fountain resets, just go to the camp and it becomes the next morning. There is no apparent time limit, so just advancing the clock by going to the camp is an easy way to get the fountain to refresh.
I have actually had on occasion to go to the camp twice in a row to get the fountain to reset.
Now that I have cast Sodar's Wrath enough to get the cost down, I have about 100 Harmonic Gems in the bank...
When you have another day until the fountain resets, just go to the camp and it becomes the next morning. There is no apparent time limit, so just advancing the clock by going to the camp is an easy way to get the fountain to refresh.
Uhm, thanks for pointing me into this ;-)
This is not intended, and I am sorry to say that I have to change this to avoid some other problems (esp. with the expansion). So the deal will be: Visiting the guild will advance the time to the next morning, but only if it is evening already. The intention of skipping time was to avoid the night.
Kind regards
Mario
I'm agreeing with the above: it's ok as it is, don't make it easier for, as one person put it, cry babies.
However, to keep your customers satisfied there are 2 things you can do:
As Wizardz suggested, spell (ho hum) out the options in the help file.
As I suggested somewhere else, add an easy option that increases spell regeneration.
There were also good suggestions for spreading the magic workload among characters like the rogue and especially the paladin although I seem to remember kitting my bard out with a kick-ass horn or wand.
One thing I would like to see changed is the spell mastery discount. Every 50 uses or so. When I read about this in the help file I expected that when I finished the game most of my spells would be at half cost, especially the lower level ones. Yes I could afford them easily when my magic users had lots of spell points but even still, I had hoped that at higher levels or when upgrading class they would be more pros at those spells. Maybe a discount on lower level spells each time a new spell level was reached.
If I had to choose anything to make the game easier, I would prefer being able to choose which trait increases with level up. Nothing is more frustrating than rolling max HP/SP and increasing your constitution to 26.
Now that there are maximums on each of the stats, getting a random stat (skewed to your primary stats) is not as bad as it used to be for me. With no upper limit it was more important to reroll (if that's your style) than it is now. I just accept the less preferred stat, knowing I'd be increasing that stat sooner or later anyway.
Don't you need to get to level 80+ to cap all your stats?
Am I being too optimistic about getting through the game waaaay before that (mages will probably get there but I'm not sure that my paladin will)
No, although most players try to get through the game too early, you can get through way before you max out the stats. For me it is just less frustrating when I realize that I can accept any stat on my level up rolls...
One thing I would like to see changed is the spell mastery discount. Every 50 uses or so. When I read about this in the help file I expected that when I finished the game most of my spells would be at half cost, especially the lower level ones. Yes I could afford them easily when my magic users had lots of spell points but even still, I had hoped that at higher levels or when upgrading class they would be more pros at those spells. Maybe a discount on lower level spells each time a new spell level was reached.
+1
If I had to choose anything to make the game easier, I would prefer being able to choose which trait increases with level up. Nothing is more frustrating than rolling max HP/SP and increasing your constitution to 26.
+1
Game on!
- Corey
I know I'm commenting weeks after this post, but one thought:
If you're burning through SP that quickly (in the early part of the game), perhaps you should think about being more judicious with them. That's part of the beauty of the game in my opinion.
I had to take advantage of my fighters and hunter and bard (and Paladin). In the early going, SP are really valuable. It gets easier as your casters level up. But when you get the level-3 spells (that is to say, level 5 mag/conj character), there's a temptation to try to kill every monster-group with Battle Strike or Star Fire. Sometimes, you have to kill them with weapons and bows. It means your party will require more attack-turns, which in turn means your characters will get hurt more, but there's a nice balance to be had. Weapons - Spells - Healing Balm -- sometimes you just gotta retreat to save yourself (including SP) and live to fight another day.
Good point. Plus, your casters in the beginning can use their spells for healing. Once you get to Savage crossing, you can arm them with butterflies and they can help attack the monsters.
When you have another day until the fountain resets, just go to the camp and it becomes the next morning. There is no apparent time limit, so just advancing the clock by going to the camp is an easy way to get the fountain to refresh.
Uhm, thanks for pointing me into this ;-)
This is not intended, and I am sorry to say that I have to change this to avoid some other problems (esp. with the expansion). So the deal will be: Visiting the guild will advance the time to the next morning, but only if it is evening already. The intention of skipping time was to avoid the night.
Kind regards
You know what might be useful is a clock
It would make timing the burial mound and mana fountains easier
Maybe even a camp function (with appropriate random encounters) so that we don't have to sit in front of the burial mound or training hall waiting for it to open
There is a clock in settings at the bottom right.
You know what might be useful is a clock
It would make timing the burial mound and mana fountains easier
And there is a camp across the lake north of the Grave Mound.
