How to play a rogue + some ideas - ID: 1043
FORUM: Feature Requests
This topic was started by ez1 on 11/03/2013, 15:43:54
Rather than resurrect a several month old post on the rogue that I thought had some good ideas, I will go ahead and make a new one with my observations and some ideas on the Rogue class.
Early on, when building my initial party, I saw in the spell list the trap zap spell. I thought great, no need for a rogue, which if it was anything like the wizardry series thief (which it is on the surface) was going to just suck up space in the group and provide low contribution. After getting nailed by several traps and trying over 100 times to bash open some spell resistant chests unsuccessfully, I decided I was going to at least rotate a rogue into the party, and started working on one.
Eventually, around level 11 or 12, in the burial mound, I permanently swapped in the rogue, replacing the monk I had.
How to have an effective Rogue:
-- Even with low hp, the rogue is best in the front row. Your first action is to hide, and he will execute it before anyone else gets to go. If successful, nothing hits him - no area spells, no attacks, etc...This is an extremely helpful defensive move and forces the attacks to your real "heavies" in the front.
-- Pick the biggest target that survived, and your Rogue attack will go off before anyone else's in the following round.
-- Early on, I found the thieves dagger the best choice because your rogue gets a range of 30' from the front once hidden (the 20' means an extra 20' range), and will do pretty good damage even if he fails to critical.
-- Areas with lots of back row casters or hurlers, and later in the game: switch to the bow.
-- Carry lockpicks with you because those chests starting around 8 tumblers are kind of a pain without them
-- Keep some flash bombs and healing potions on him - with these he can stay hidden and still provide assistance if need be.
The monk's ac and damage never really got much ahead of my warrior, even with my warrior using newbie gear. In fact he started to fall behind in both, and having around 60% of the hp meant he was dieing all the time. The bard in the front row -- ac and hp not as good, and he tended to get torn up also. Neither was as effective as the rogue with his "cloaking device" of hiding in the shadows.
Comments:
-- I don't get why my rogue has by far the lowest hp in my group. At level 22 or so he has a hair over 200hp, and both my archmages have well over 400. My bard has over 300 is the next lowest.
-- I liked the idea I saw presented before that maybe the rogue can use some mage type items, like wands, some rings, etc..
-- at later levels, after a hide attack I think there should be a greater damage multiplier, right now it appears to cap at double regular damage. This would help balance the hiding with some of the other classes. Maybe something like level 1 is 2x dmg, level 11 is 3x dmg, level 20 is 4x, and level 30 is 5x
Class Change for Rogue:
What about allowing the rogue to change class, maybe enabled around level 13, to a Ninja or Assassin(e)?
The rogue's thief skills would stop progressing at the switching point (so go higher to get higher skills)
The new class would pick up hp from the secondary level gains, fixing that problem
The new class could allow slightly heavier armor, shields, and the use of wands, maybe even some monk gear.
The new class could critical without a hide, but at a reduced rate OR the new class could get mutiple attacks like a monk, warrior, or paladin.
I had a rogue I abandoned around level 5 or 6, so I can't say much about actually playing one but reading about the class on here made me abandon him before I progressed too far. I actually replaced him with a monk who is quite the glass cannon. I didn't like that it couldn't attack multiple times, its main use is traps and locks (except I rarely come across traps and force locks open), and when I played its chance to hide in the shadows was low. I was expecting a higher rate I guess.
I like what you are saying about the change class though. I wish all of the melee classes had the options to change if they want to, but into what I would call a "more defensive" or "more offensive" class. Couldn't each class evolve from a balanced class into a class that focuses on defense or offense, sacrificing a little of one for the other? On the rogues class changing, it seems to me like Ninja could have higher attack with less AC, and the Assassin class would have more AC for less attack.
The only problem I foresee is that it could eliminate the monk. I would rather have a rogue that could equal the current monk instead of a stronger monk. Right now I'm considering replacing my monk with a hunter or warrior, so maybe the monk and rogue class just need a little tweaking.
EDIT: Thinking more about allowing each class to change into another or more, it can allow or change the versatility of each class and allow more variety in gameplay.
Once you find a Singing Sword try having your Rogue use it.
I just saw that singing sword on the item list, along with with some other really powerful looking weapons that I never found, even after finishing the game and grinding/cycling some in inferno and the coast lands. I did get a knuckleduster which I thought was a great step up from the thieves dagger, but there are quite a few weapons a lot better it seems. Where did you get the singing sword?
Also, I started working on the monk again just to see how he would stack up, and his hp seems about the same as where the rogue's would be, which makes me feel I need to make suggestions for him too, lol.
Monk Idea:
What about counterattack for the monk, he picks the stance counterattack (vs. attack or defense) and gets no attacks, but any attack that targets him and would hit, he has a chance to reverse as his full attack back to the attacker(s).
Important: Not all of the items on the item list are actually accessible. Some of them are part of the upcoming expansion!
Ok good to know, I was starting to think I had missed out on a lot. Any eta on the expansion?
Ah, yes, I am one of the beta testers. We cannot always tell what has been released in an update and what is still only available in beta for the expansion. So my guess is that you might find it in the Andursteel areas. I am testing the legend mode (of the expansion). For future reference, I found the Singing Sword grinding in the Ridge Fault. This does seem to be a very rare item, but should be useful fighting the bosses in the expansion.
Yes, the knuckleduster is a good weapon for your thief in the interim. Keep him/her around, stored in the Inn if necessary, for when the expansion comes out. Unless, of course you want to start over for the expansion. I think that might be the best way to discover all the new stuff...
Any eta on the expansion?
I need to add some more quests, and do the final design on the last expansion level.
- knock on wood* I really hope I can do a release around easter.
Kind regards
Mario
