View source for Party attacks last - ID: 378

==== FORUM: [[Bug Reports]] ====
'''This topic was started by PulpExposure on 22/01/2012, 02:38:28'''

<div class="postinfo">Post by PulpExposure on 22/01/2012, 02:38:28</div>

With the exception of my thief, my party always attacks last.  All have dex of 18, and as its a secondary stat it won't go higher for quite some time.  Party is level 12 or so.  In most cases this isn't too much of a problem, but when I face mobs of enemies at close range (i.e., the 24 ghosts behind the first doors in level 2 of the grave mound), my party dies before I can even get 1 action in.<br/>
<br/>
It's frustrating, and doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by icetear on 22/01/2012, 10:10:18</div>

Hello PulpExposure,<br/>
<br/>
The DEX attribute is not secondary for all classes, Hunters and Monks have it as primary, too.<br/>
You are in a part of the game where it becomes significantly more difficult, and having experienced spellcasters (with higher DEX) might be a key to solving the grave mound. The encounter you are talking of is really tough, but you will find some strategies to manage (or avoid) this fight in the forum.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario

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<div class="postinfo">Post by PulpExposure on 22/01/2012, 14:32:20</div>

Mario, granted Hunters and Monks have it also, but that's not my point.  Casters always have it secondary, regardless.  I can certainly AOE the monsters as I have spell access to do that (mind blade, etc.), but my point is all the monsters go before that point...and 24 melee attacks (all with multiple attacks per round), chops through my party before my casters act.  My characters up front sit at -16 or -15 AC, in the best equipment I have access to, around 170-200 hitpoints each, and they're still being slaughtered.  And yes, I've tried fully buffing the party as well.<br/>
<br/>
At this time, I can't see how this is doable.  Am I just supposed to mindlessly grind monsters for extra hit points and levels now?  Grave Mound is the next stop I am sent to, and these 2 encounters are ridiculous.  I didn't have trouble before this point.  It's simply not a good user experience to suddenly massively increase difficulty like this.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by icetear on 22/01/2012, 14:44:45</div>

I see your point.<br/>
<br/>
These fights are not mandatory, there is a way of circumventing them. But I agree that the difficulty increase might be too heavy. I will rework those creatures so that the fight is easier without having to grind first.<br/>
I hope this is ok for you.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario

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<div class="postinfo">Post by PulpExposure on 22/01/2012, 15:07:32</div>

Thanks for the engagement, Mario.  Very appreciative.  I was just thinking more on this; it's less about the specific encounters, and more about dexterity.  In all RPGs, it's always better to kill the monster first; this way you don't have to worry about soaking damage.  This means initiative is a priority.  However, in Silversword, initiative is tied directly to dexterity, making it the most important stat in the game, to me at least.  You ask me if I want 25 int and 18 dex, or 18 int and 25 dex for a caster, I'd go dex in a heartbeat; I can always replenish spell points, after all.<br/>
<br/>
Where this really becomes problematic is that while monsters increase linearly in dex, most characters are artificially capped at 18 for quite awhile, meaning monsters will attack faster for quite awhile. This is a massive imbalance in power at mid game, especially as you start running into large monster groups (who all can melee attack) and groups of casters who can cast full party damage spells (shamans and spirit strike).  Yes, it goes away as the secondary stat limits get lifted, but that gap still exists for quite some time.<br/>
<br/>
There's got to be some way for the user to mitigate that.  In D&D for instance, initiative is randomized, but it's also tied to dex.  Knowing the important of initiative, the designers also added in initiative perks that could mitigate a lower dex.<br/>
<br/>
It's early here; I hope that makes sense.  I do appreciate your willingness to engage with your users, Mario.  It's really nice.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by icetear on 22/01/2012, 15:28:55</div>

Your suggestions are greatly appreciated, thank you!<br/>
<br/>
One addition:<br/>
<br/>
Initiative is internally rolled with 1d20. The DEX bonus is added then.<br/>
All casters have DEX as primary stat (along with INT), which should take you in front of most enemies once you have gained enough levels with your spellweavers.<br/>
<br/>
But nonetheless I will try to balance this out.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario

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<div class="postinfo">Post by PulpExposure on 22/01/2012, 22:02:21</div>

<div class="quote"><b>Quote from Author: icetear</b><br>Your suggestions are greatly appreciated, thank you!<br/>
<br/>
One addition:<br/>
<br/>
Initiative is internally rolled with 1d20. The DEX bonus is added then.<br/>
All casters have DEX as primary stat (along with INT), which should take you in front of most enemies once you have gained enough levels with your spellweavers.<br/>
<br/>
But nonetheless I will try to balance this out.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario</div>

Thanks for the insight.  Nice to see the mechanics a bit; actually, I had expected to see more of that in the Compendium.  I know it's not something everyone wants to see, but I do like understanding the game mechanics like that.

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