View source for Not using a rogue - ID: 410

==== FORUM: [[Gossip - The rusty dagger tavern]] ====
'''This topic was started by grakyar on 31/01/2012, 17:53:49'''

<div class="postinfo">Post by grakyar on 31/01/2012, 17:53:49</div>

If you're not going to use a rogue, how do you detect secret doors, etc. on a continuous basis?<br/>
<br/>
The open eye spell works for things like stairs. And there's another spell that apparently does it for the one space you're in when you cast it, but doesn't run constantly...<br/>
<br/>
Thanks!

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by paulos27 on 02/02/2012, 00:47:05</div>

There's a higher level sourcerer spell that lasts forever.  I'd recommend keeping the rogue until you get to Savage Crossing or so, then swap him out - it'll mean you can save on casting trapzap for all the chests on lower levels where magic points are at a premium too.

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by grakyar on 02/02/2012, 03:52:49</div>

Thanks. I guess you end up changing a conjurer or magician into a sorcerer later on?<br/>
<br/>
I'm already at Savage Crossing, swapped the rogue out awhile ago, but feel like I end up missing secrets (and then I use the forums!)

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by OBoile on 02/02/2012, 04:44:13</div>

<div class="quote"><b>Quote from Author: grakyar</b><br>Thanks. I guess you end up changing a conjurer or magician into a sorcerer later on?<br/>
<br/>
I'm already at Savage Crossing, swapped the rogue out awhile ago, but feel like I end up missing secrets (and then I use the forums!)</div>
Yes, once your casters hit level 13 and have all 7 spell levels you should switch to a new class.

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by November on 06/02/2012, 05:56:33</div>

Incidentally, I've found that my monk disarms chests just fine after a lock pick.

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by Nimue on 06/02/2012, 15:53:07</div>

<div class="quote"><b>Quote from Author: November</b><br>Incidentally, I've found that my monk disarms chests just fine after a lock pick.</div>

Don't let the Thieves' Guild hear that ;)<br/>
<br/>
Seriously though, I think that this skill should be limited to Rogues. They already are underpowered compared to the other classes (fewer HP, not much melee damage, critical hits only when sneaking), so they should at least have one distinctive feature.

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by icetear on 06/02/2012, 15:57:25</div>

If a lock is picked, no further disarming skill is necessary.<br/>
The Disarm skill is automatically applied when trying to avoid traps (new feature with next update) and when failing at forcing/picklocking.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by Nimue on 06/02/2012, 16:00:01</div>

Thanks for the clarification!<br/>
<br/>
New feature...? *pricks her ears* Interesting :)

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by November on 07/02/2012, 10:30:23</div>

<div class="quote"><b>Quote from Author: icetear</b><br>If a lock is picked, no further disarming skill is necessary.<br/>
The Disarm skill is automatically applied when trying to avoid traps (new feature with next update) and when failing at forcing/picklocking.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario</div>

Ummm...does this mean that anybody--even my klutzy barbarian with 3 dexterity and 5 intelligence--can buy a lockpick, use it, and then disarm the chest?

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by icetear on 07/02/2012, 10:45:12</div>

Yes, using a Lockpick will solve the chest word, anybody can use it.<br/>
After that you can "Pick Lock" to open it - the word will then be shown completely.<br/>
<br/>
If you have a rogue, the word will be revealed depending on your pick lock skill.<br/>
<br/>
Conclusion: Buying a lockpick is a means to save spell points (TRZP) or to make a rogue useless (here).<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by mike32 on 08/02/2012, 08:56:23</div>

Maybe you should rethink the rogue class, and make it more useful ?<br/>
Give it some distinct advantage over the other classes ?<br/>
<br/>
I'm really finding that the rogue class in Silversword is a lot less fun to have than in other games I'm used too. (Baldur's Gates, ...)

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by icetear on 08/02/2012, 10:54:38</div>

Hi Mike,<br/>
<br/>
right now the rogue has some abilities that make him stand out:<br/>
<br/>
- will help the whole party avoid traps automatically (next update)<br/>
- Hide in shadows has the highest initiative<br/>
- can identify items with the highest success rate<br/>
<br/>
As I know that a lot of you want the rogue to be more useful, let's start a wish list with this thread:<br/>
<br/>
Tell me what feature do you want to see regarding the rogue class.<br/>
<br/>
Just throw in your thoughts.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mario

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by mike32 on 08/02/2012, 14:19:14</div>

For the "can identify items with the highest success rate", i was expecting that to be related to a bard class.<br/>
I didn't even knew that a rogue could do that ;)<br/>
<br/>
Things i'm expecting to do with a rogue character:<br/>
> detecting traps (by that I mean to see precisely where the trap is, so it becomes, sometimes, possible to go around it)<br/>
> disarming traps (by that I mean that after having identified precisely where a trap is, we should be able to try to disarm it, and if successful, the trap should be removed (definitely ?))<br/>
> hidding in the shadows and inflicting critical damage with a bow<br/>
> ...

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by grakyar on 08/02/2012, 15:06:18</div>

Some ideas:<br/>
<br/>
* Auto-disarm / avoid traps (there are some areas like the Druid's Grove temple where there are dark trap areas you have to navigate) - having a chance to auto-disarm or avoid those traps would be cool, doesn't have to 100% perfect of course.<br/>
<br/>
* Find extra gear. I think it'd be cool to get a bit more equipment with a bit more variety. Maybe a rogue gives you an increased percentage likelihood of finding good gear on monsters. The rogue could increase the % of gold you get as well, so you get richer with a rogue in your party.<br/>
<br/>
* Sneak skill that helps a party avoid encounters. A rogue should be able to "scout ahead" and determine if there are bad guys. So if your party is hurting and needs to escape more easily, you would use a "Scout Ahead" skill that increases the chances of NOT running into monsters and being forced to fight.<br/>
<br/>
I'd definitely use this skill from time to time when I have to escape a dungeon for example.<br/>
<br/>
* Hide in shadows / Backstab - I dropped my rogue awhile ago, so I don't really know how the hide in shadows works, but I think it'd be interesting for there to be varying degrees of ability here. Early on, a rogue hides in the shadows and attacks, but has to re-hide again each time if he wants to attack. And maybe he can only attack a monster 20 or 30' away. But a higher level skill would let the rogue attack something further back, say 50 or 60'. An even higher level skill might allow the rogue to stay hidden after attacking. So the rogue hides, attacks and is hidden again, and can attack each round with a high likelihood of not being seeing. This makes the rogue more like an assassin.<br/>
<br/>
* Barter - This may also be a bard skill, but a rogue could have a barter type skill to lower the price of stuff in shops. Comes in handy early on when you don't have as much cash. Less interesting later on when you accumulate more, or you just buy bags of 100,000 gold :)

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by Nimue on 08/02/2012, 16:44:36</div>

<div class="quote"><b>Quote from Author: grakyar</b><br>
* Hide in shadows / Backstab - I dropped my rogue awhile ago, so I don't really know how the hide in shadows works, but I think it'd be interesting for there to be varying degrees of ability here. Early on, a rogue hides in the shadows and attacks, but has to re-hide again each time if he wants to attack. And maybe he can only attack a monster 20 or 30' away. But a higher level skill would let the rogue attack something further back, say 50 or 60'. An even higher level skill might allow the rogue to stay hidden after attacking. So the rogue hides, attacks and is hidden again, and can attack each round with a high likelihood of not being seeing. This makes the rogue more like an assassin.
</div>
I like this suggestion a lot, both the "sneak faster" idea and the "staying hidden". Currently, sneaking up on an enemy who is 50' away takes four rounds, or even longer if the rogue is discovered on the way and has to start over. Compared to a hunter, who has a critical hit chance every round, this is a disadvantage. <br/>
<br/>
Your "scout ahead" suggestion seems more fitting for a hunter, although it could be argued that indoors it's more fitting for a rogue, so I guess it's something that goes well with both classes. I agree that "bartering" would be suitable for both bards and rogues.<br/>
<br/>
Having said that, a disarm/avoid traps skill that isn't limited to chests would definitely make rogues more useful. Also, I'd be highly in favour of "rogue only" lockpicks and lockpicking - it doesn't seem to make much sense to have, for exmple, a Paladin get out the tools and pick a lock.

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by Don Quixote on 08/02/2012, 20:48:37</div>

Hi,<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
first of all i would say, open locks by  physically means  should be limited to a rouge or a rouge like class (i.e. assassin or ninja - if there is anything planed in the future :-). Lockpicks shouldn't be used by other classes.<br/>
Then a better weapon would be nice. You will find t he thieves dagger quiet early (is this really t he best weapon for t he rouge?) compared to the stone blade it seems really weak.<br/>
The thief is the character with the lowest hit points in my party. Beeing around Lv 24 my thief has less than 300HP while the other classes AM, Hunter, Bard have more than 400 HP. The gap is about 150 HP. As I mentioned before - the mage should be the weakest class.<br/>
<br/>
What about a steal option in shops or while encounters?<br/>
<br/>
Maybe I would cancel the crit-option for the hunter in hand to hand combat. So the hunter would be specialised in ranged crticals and the thief could be the melee crit-dealer. <br/>
(having a higher attack range while hidden, sounds good for me too.)<br/>
<br/>
More gold, invisibillity cap etc. sounds good for me too)<br/>
<br/>
Greets DQ

<hr>

<div class="postinfo">Post by November on 10/02/2012, 21:06:15</div>

The hidden/critical idea is nice. The problem with rogues (and paladins and bards to an extent) is their lack of usefulness in the late game. The traps idea(s) and treasure is good, too. The treasure in particular would be a unique advantage even in the late game. <br/>
<br/>
I like the hunter's critical limited to ranged attacks as well. Incidentally, this is a criticism of the hunter overall. The hunter's melee damage is pretty much worthless after a little while. Heck--he could run around killing things with a blunt pencil with one shot. Why is strength one of his main attributes? It's irritating to wait for his strength to hit 25 before being able to raise other stats. Constitution makes more sense to me.

<hr>



[[Category:Topic]]
[[Category:Archive]]