View source for Do I Need a Bard? - ID: 1496

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'''This topic was started by Professor1028 on 10/11/2017, 17:34:13'''

<div class="postinfo">Post by Professor1028 on 10/11/2017, 17:34:13</div>

I'm still fairly new to this game.  My characters are level 12 and surviving (mostly).  Right now I do not have a Bard (I did at one point but switched him out).  My party consists of:<br/>
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Warrior, Monk, Paladin, Hunter, Rogue, Conjurer, Magician<br/>
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I just keep getting this feeling that I will regret not having a Bard at some point.  Should I have one? Or maybe a better question is... will I end up needing one and then regretting not having one this whole time?  If anyone is getting swapped for the Bard, it would be the Hunter or Rogue (probably the Hunter though).<br/>
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Suggestions?

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Xanderfell on 11/11/2017, 05:15:26</div>

I don’t know if you need a bard but I would highly recommend one,. Definitely over a hunter, later in the game the bard songs are extremely helpful and the instruments are amazing for doing group damage.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Professor1028 on 14/11/2017, 21:02:45</div>

Got it... thanks!! I actually ended up swapping out my Warrior for the Bard.  While she was doing a lot of damage, I like the critical hits that my Hunter is able to do.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Visstar on 28/11/2017, 22:09:41</div>

While not strictly necessary, a bard is highly recommended. You will appreciate the healing and energizing songs, and later in the game you will find some instruments that will prove very handy!<br/>
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I never played with a hunter, but may try this when I start the game again one day. FWIW, barbarians also have critical hit ability, so you could play with a barbarian warrior instead of a hunter.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Visstar on 30/11/2017, 15:56:45</div>

<div class="quote"><b>Quote from Author: Visstar</b><br>I never played with a hunter, but may try this when I start the game again one day. FWIW, barbarians also have critical hit ability, so you could play with a barbarian warrior instead of a hunter.</div>

Tried it, didn't like it. The hunter has an interesting set of skills, but the bottom line for me was that a barbarian warrior was better at melee and a hobbit rogue was at least as good at ranged weapons, plus added lock picking. For me the ideal party is:<br/>
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Barbarian Warrior: eventually becomes a Dragoncaster with a silversword<br/>
Paladin: solid melee fighter with unique spells, one one who can use the Stone Blade<br/>
Monk: best fighter in the game but needs a couple of thugs in front due to low HP<br/>
Bard: marginal melee fighter without a Singing Sword, but unique song skills and good HP<br/>
Rogue: usually a hobbit, good with a bow (from hiding), picks locks, detects danger<br/>
Magic user: magician  conjurer  sorcerer  wizard  archmage<br/>
Magic user: conjurer  sorcerer  magician  wizard  archmage

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Professor1028 on 02/12/2017, 06:12:52</div>

Thanks... I appreciate your advice! I do like the Hunter’s critical ability (didn’t realize that barbarians have it as well so may swap out the Hunter with a Warrior that I’ve already leveled up).  One of the things I like most about this game is that you can try different combinations of characters to see what suits you.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Visstar on 07/12/2017, 20:56:31</div>

Absolutely!<br/>
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One thing I am learned is that while a barbarian does has critical hit capability, it doesn't match that of a hunter. I still take the warrior over the hunter in melee, though.<br/>
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One day I'll try the game with a hunter in place of a rogue, to see how well magic users do with sensing danger and opening chests. The hunter would be a perfect #4, with the bard moving out of melee to #5 where (s)he can use horns more safely.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by HunterOfEvil on 09/08/2020, 08:39:38</div>

Also, if you are VERY lucky, your Bard could become extremely powerful by equipping a Singing Sword. It does ridiculous damage and to add insult to injury it boasts a massive THAC0 bonus.
<div class="spoiler">I managed to find one in the Ridge Fault, but it has very powerful enemies and the drop rate is very low.</div>

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Visstar on 09/08/2020, 15:53:07</div>

Never found one in the Ridge Fault, only later in the game. hunterofEvil makes a good point: between the Singing Sword and horns, the bard is a terrific character. <br/>
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I'm not sure about the drop rate on the ridge, but the QUALITY of the drops is outstanding. <br/>
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BTW, I made a mistake re. barbarian critical hits. They get a critical BONUS but can't use it as a warrior, only as hunter (or, presumably, rogue). They do make great warriors, though.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by chrlpolk on 10/08/2020, 16:11:35</div>

<div class="quote"><b>Quote from Author: Visstar</b><br>
BTW, I made a mistake re. barbarian critical hits. They get a critical BONUS but can't use it as a warrior, only as hunter (or, presumably, rogue). They do make great warriors, though.
</div>

Yeah, Iceatear confirmed this awhile back.  Barbarian's talent only contributes to classes that use critical hits.  Otherwise, like the casting talents, it has no effect.  The melee bonus still applies.  TBH while those talents seem like they're going to stack awesome, they really don't seem essential by late game - the hunter isn't going to have more than 99% crit rate, for instance.  If you play with a ranged Hunter (and you should) then you’re also not using the Barbarian’s melee bonus, and so an elf’s bow bonus would be better, even though you don’t use the Elf’s magic talent.<br/>
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It is NOT required to have a Bard to finish the game, but it is highly recommended to have one for the unmatched adventuring utility!

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<div class="postinfo">Post by rakenan on 04/11/2020, 04:46:52</div>

I can hardly imagine playing the game without a Bard. My play style relies heavily on obliterating enemies with magical artillery strikes, and those really drain the spell points. The Bard is the only practical way to top off my fuel tank at a reasonable rate.<br/>
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My team was:<br/>
Dwarf Warrior  Dragoncaller<br/>
Human Paladin<br/>
Human Bard<br/>
Hobbit Rogue  Dragoncaller<br/>
Gnome Magician  Conjurer  Sorceror  Wizard  Archmage<br/>
Gnome Conjurer  Magician  Sorceror  Wizard  Archmage<br/>
Gnome Conjurer  Sorceror  Wizard  Magician  Archmage<br/>
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I'm pretty sure I got my caster class changes right - the last one might be from my most recent Bard's Tale team, though. Doesn't matter much once they hit Archmage anyway.<br/>
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My Paladin uses Alchemy, and my Bard has a collection of offensive instruments to use. But I still rely heavily on Sodar's Wrath. Someday I expect I'll get the spell mastery to 100% and be able to cast it free. Not anticipating that any time soon, and honestly I should focus on Armageddon if I'm going to be that stupid about grinding spell mastery. I mean, sure, it takes 150 points to get Armageddon to be free and only 90 for Sodar's Wrath, but if you're going to go full OCD on something like that, why think small?

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Visstar on 04/11/2020, 14:33:20</div>

I agree. I'm keeping the bard. In fact, soon I'll try playing with two bards.<br/>
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Right now I'm playing with two DC, and loving the rogue DC casting from hiding and still earning master thief points. I'm considering dropping the paladin, though, and using a summoned creature instead, probably an astral dragon.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by rakenan on 04/11/2020, 18:32:16</div>

I keep my Paladin because I like his buff spells. He's honestly not that amazing, but the AC buff keeps my front lines alive better than the Archmage equivalent, and his to-hit buff is also nice for hitting those elusive foes. He's also no slouch in melee combat, with the Stone Blade for anything that can be petrified, and a Lance of Forgus to thrash anything else. My big weakness at the moment seems to be melee combat with things that cannot be crit or petrified. My Warrior Dragoncaller gets lots of hits with the Silversword and my Paladin is going to overtake her eventually, but Rogues and Bards aren't especially good against foes you cannot crit.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by Visstar on 05/11/2020, 17:48:16</div>

Yes, it's the monsters that can't be critically hit, can't be stoned, and are magic resistant that make rogue, hunter, Silversword, etc, less useful.<br/>
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I gave my Paladin the Axe of Souls and my warrior/DC the Staff of Storms for this reason.<br/>
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I still have the Paladin in the lineup for the toHit bonuses. When (if) I drop her, I'll have a mage cast Giant Strength at the beginning of combat.

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<div class="postinfo">Post by chrlpolk on 10/11/2020, 22:16:56</div>

The great thing about Paladin spells is that they don’t expire, except for camps and anti-magic zones.  The Warrior’s few extra hits isn’t enough to overdo the Paladin’s spells, in my experience, and this is especially true in the expansion where things have massive HP and can take hits.  I think it’s my play style, I had 3 Arches and a DC (off a Hunter so not so much melee) so I relied on magic for most things, crits on others, and prayers/curses/lucky rolls/save scums when all else failed!

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